large unjacketed bullet

[egon999]

Could anyone give me an idea what type of bullet this is?
I found it around 6 inches down in pasture. Its 30mm long and approx 11mm in diameter and weighs a fraction under 30g
It has rifling marks but is in good condition despite aving been fired.
I've found unjacketed pistol bullets before but nothing as large as this. At 11mm it would be too small for .50 calibre I think?
Thanks

[former member]

Martini Henry ? ..... ''Zulus,fousands of em!!"

[Sheddy]

The .45 ACP (Colt 1911) is 11.5mm dia length depends upon bullet type and weight.

[DOGMAN]

As above. 45 ACP (American colt patent). This round I believe was used in both the Thompson sub machine gun and colt .45 semi auto pistol. I expect the yanks were training in the area?

[Dean (Ajax)]

I think thats a Martini Enfield bullet.

Dean

[RRPG]

I agree dean. It certainly isn't a .45cal ACP as these were jacketed, and it is far too long to be an ACP.

[egon999]

Thanks everyone
Didn't the thompson fire pistol ammunition though (ACP: Automatic Colt Pistol) and this looks too long to be a pistol bullet.
I think it may be a martini Henri as following Slippery's 'Private Hook' impression I searched online and found this picture of some MH bullets.
Wonder why it was in a field no where near any firing ranges tho?
Are the 2 grooves significant RRPG?

[RRPG]

Yes, the Thompson SMG fired .45 cal ACP.

The two grooves are significant as this shows how they were held within the cartridge. The top groove will be the very lip of the cartridge, the lower one will be a further 'crimp' visible on the cartridge itself. This will help ID precisely what bullet it is as by no means all had this double indent.

[egon999]

I think thats a Martini Enfield bullet.

Dean

Cheers dean. not heard of martini enfield. googled it and looks very similar to martini henry

[Dean (Ajax)]

The Martini Enfield was a .455 cal, while the Martini Henry ( the weapon looks the same..and is the same except for the cal) was a .303 cal...the grooves on these black powder weapons have 2 purposes, one is to help hold it in the casing...but more important is the fact that black powder is very dirty when fired..so a grease was put into these grooves to help the round down the barrel was well as to help clean it of the burnt powder....you can see this more clearly on rounds that were in paper cartriges..the 2 or 3 grooves in the Pattern 53 Enfield or the American Springfields were for grease.
The rounds for the Muzzle loading Springfields came in packs of 10..they were 58 cal..however in each pack was 2 or 3 Cleaning rounds" these were 54 cal..with a stem and a concave washer on them..when fired the stem was pushed in and the washer flatten out..this scraped the barrel clean when fired...if this had not been done..then after firring several rounds..you could not longer ram a round all the way down the barrel as it was so plugged up with burnt powder..as I used to fire black powder muskets..I have had this problem myself...if you fire a round that is not seated all the way against the powder at the base of the barrel..you can burst the barrel.

These cleaning rounds are called Williams cleaning rounds here is a link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_cleaner_bullet" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The one shown in the photo on this link is not complete..you can see part of the stem..but the washer is gone
Dean

[egon999]

Thanks Dean but didn't the .303 calibre came in after martini henry?

[busterhamer]

That was good timing, as i found a handfull of these at the weekend and was going to post them, i only found 1 complete one and a splat one, now i also found some which look like they have been cut in half with a guilotine if that makes sense, anybody any ideas as to why this would have been done?